Community Rainbow Waves

Out Is The New In​

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I am a 25 year old Gay Woman – content warning: this coming out story contains discussion of an abusive relationship

As a teenager I always thought that something was amiss as I used to enjoy the company more of women than I did men. I could have a laugh more with guys but with women I connected more with them and was always so shy whenever someone would speak to me. I pushed my feelings down as I thought I was pretty young and just concentrated on my schoolwork. It wasn’t until I started football (I live in England) when I was 14 and was immediately drawn to one of the girls on my team. We used to speak constantly outside of football and always be at each other’s houses. The feelings grew more and more and when I couldn’t see them, I used to wonder why I would get so upset about it. It wasn’t until a few months after playing football that I realised I liked her more than a friend and lucky for me she felt the exact same. But because we were so young, we wanted to keep it to ourselves, from our families and our friends. At first, I was completely ok with that as I was coming to terms with it myself and was getting used to being with a woman for the first time. After 2 years of being a couple in secret I felt I was ready to tell my family and friends as everyone always used to ask me if things were what they seemed, but I used to deny them. But she still didn’t want anyone to know and I was in a different place to her as to how I felt, and this caused a massive problem for us both to the point she no longer wanted to be with me. This break my heart, but it also made me stronger as I had the courage to tell a select few of my closest friends what had been happening. I cried to the point the literally just kept hugging me saying everything was going to be fine and that they accepted me for who I was. It wasn’t until a year or 2 after this that I came out to my parents, in the meantime I was dating and got used to this new normal for me. I had a bad relationship after who was controlling and turned me into a person that wasn’t me. This was when me coming out to my parents happened. I was friends with two people who had recently split up with each other, one of them was with me and other came round to give them something of theirs (I was the one to open the door) as I came back in my dad was sat next to my friend and he asked me if that was my girlfriend (trying to have a joke) I replied with no. He then asked me if I was actually gay after asking me a million times previously and me denying each one, and without any hesitation or thought process I literally said yes. He thought I was joking at first and I said that no I actually am. My sisters came running downstairs at this point with pure excitement because I had finally admitted that I was gay. Everyone was so supportive and the only things my parents said to me was they were disappointed I never told them before. It was such a huge relief to have such a positive reaction. All of my family followed with me coming out to them and one by one they all said they already knew I was but was waiting for me to say something. After this I was relieved, I could finally be myself and express myself in a way I have always wanted. I was able to talk about things more and not have to hide any part of me from the world. It hasn’t always been plain sailing as my previous partner who I was with for three years, I was blind to see was abusive in many forms. Mentally and towards the end was physical. Still till this day has had lasting effects of me having to go through countless therapies to get myself on track and recover from having anxiety and depression ever since. I am finally on the mend and I am now with my amazing partner who everyday helps me heal and encourages me to go for my goals that I set out for myself. She continues show and give me the love I have always wanted. Its been 11 years since I first knew I was gay and I’ve never been happier.

When you feel like there’s no way out, love is the only way.

I believe it all started when I was 11. I was at the mall with my family looking for fornitures, and as a child would do, I decided to explore the store. As I was looking around, I saw a huge TV that was passing this super colorful music video of a bunch of girls in school, they were also cheerleaders and seemed so happy, they even had a choreography, they got me hooked.
I couldn’t take that video from my mind so the first thing I did when I got home was try to find that video again, and I did! I found out it was from a South Korean girlgroup called Girl’s Generation and ever since I never stopped looking for more, I started to search everything about all the girls and it was love at first sight. I found a fanpage that had a chat in which I got to know more fans, and I made friends there (I still talk to some of them now, and I’m 20!).
It was a matter of time for me to find out about more and more groups, boygroups, groups with girls, and one or two coed, and as you might guess, I was more interested in girlgroups. It was also a matter of time for me to find out about ships. The girls where shipped between themselves, and even between other groups. Some of them were ships with boys from other groups, but it was never my cup of tea.

It was just natural for me. I was little, the reality was different, but when I got home and turned my laptop on… I saw girls from the other side of the world holding hands, cuddling, just being affectionate with each other in general. They never kissed, they never had to. It was pure, innocent love (we’ll never know, but I have my doubts!)… Beyond everything they had a connection and it was so beautiful to witness; many times it was entertaining, skinship, because the kpop industry used to have this to “please the fans” but you often felt like it was more than entertaining, you know? And that was my case.
So I lived happily in my online world until I was 13, and that’s when I started question my sexuality. I liked boys (or I thought I did), but I also wanted to “be one of the korean the girls”, or at least have what they have. It took me a while to realize because of compulsory heterosexuality that I didn’t want to be like them, I mean, not only that, I wanted what they had, the relationships that could’ve been more than friendships.
Besides what was happening in my own little world, I didn’t had my first kiss (spoiler alert, it only happened last year). I had a “boyfriend” when I was 8, but I used to run away from him to hide in the bathroom, because he wanted to kiss me, and when I was 16 a classmate pecked me, I did not want it, it was a surprise and I was so, so embarrassed I didn’t know how to react so I just pretend it never happened. Despite my looks, one or two boys used to hit on me. Around that age I thought I was bi.

I am a very lonely person, I never really had friends until I finished high school, my life started improving in 2018. I got into an university and it took a while, but I made friends and that’s when I fully embraced my sexuality.

I’ve always behaved as a queer girl on social media, ever since I was 14, I wasn’t afraid because those who know me, like my family, ex-classmates and etc didn’t have access to my accounts so I could be 100% myself. During senior year I promised I was gonna study and wait to watch all shows I’ve heard of, so when I graduated I started watching tv shows with queer representation, such as Wynonna Earp, Orphan Black, The Fosters, The Bold Type, Jane the Virgin… And I had the same interest for them as I had for the girlgroups back in 2012… I felt alive again. I had something to hold onto. They gave me strength, they made me understand that I’m deserving of love, that a woman can love woman and don’t be ashamed for that… It was just incredible. And that’s when I found out about Start The Wave.

College and the internet were a safe place. No one knew me and I saw many people of the lgbtq+ community being unapologetic themselves, and it helped me to finally let it out. One day jumped the gun and came out to two classmates; it went so well that I lost my fear and two weeks later the entire class knew I was a lesbian. Ever since, I’ve been so happy about it all that in 2019 I finally started going out, I even had my first kiss. My friends always encourage me too, and the best news is that during pride month last year I came out to both my mom and my dad! It was insane, in a good way. I have a better relationship with both of them now, I can finally say things without worrying about them finding out my sexuality and disowning me… Little by little I’m getting comfortable with and allowing myself to wear what I want, to say what i need to say around others, to express my love for women out loud.

I’m not ready to shout it from the rooftops yet, but I know I’m loved just the way I am, and there’s nothing better than that.

Happily openly gay

Today is my 31st birthday and I just wanna share my story with you.

There was this girl in kindergarten but I forgot about her eventually. Then in my early teens, when all the other girls were talking about boys, started dating and having boyfriends I just couldn’t relate to them. One day I thought having somebody special in my life would be great but it doesn’t have to be a boy. So I considered myself to be bisexual.
I was alone with these thoughts and feelings for like a year until I told some friends. They understood it but somehow they also excluded me from conversations and activities together. Plus I was bullied in school, because I was just different and I didn’t fit in. I felt alone and also depressed for some time. Back then I didn’t have a computer, no internet and no one to talk to. I kind of isolated myself for a while. I felt less alone and depressed when I watched willow and Tara on Buffy. This is why healthy same sex relationships on TV are still so important. It helped me cope.

When I was 15 I overheard a conversation between my dad and my uncle. They said homo sexuality should be prohibited and it’s not normal.
I was about to enter the living room and froze when I heard that. I went back in my room and thought I could never come out.

At the age of 16 I finally got a computer and internet access. I met a girl online, which I fell in love with. We chatted a lot, called each other, but we never met each other, since we lived kinda far apart. That’s when I came out to my mum. I just wanted to meet her in person. My mum didn’t allow it. When I came out to her she was quiet. She didn’t talk to me for three days. After that she pretended like I never told her. I don’t know if she told my dad about it back then right away or later.

We broke up shortly after eventually.

I met my first “real” girlfriend when I was 18. We were set up by friends. I was so happy and eventually brought her home to meet my parents. First just as a friend, a couple of months later I told my mum, she is my girlfriend and she was OK with it since then and we could talk more openly about it.

My grandma, who was like a second mother to me, died 2 years later. My dad didn’t allow me to bring my girlfriend to the funeral. But my older brother was allowed to bring his girlfriend, that nobody liked and also they haven’t been together for as long as we have. I think my dad still has a problem with my sexual orientation.

My first girlfriend cheated on me with my best male friend and I fell into a black hole (we also lived together by then, which made it even harder). I moved back to my parents for 3 months til I found a new place.
I thought I would never find somebody who would love me again and that maybe didn’t even deserve it. I felt the loneliness and depression again. Due to society I also thought maybe I should just try to be straight and date guys (which never happened).

Then it happened. I finally figured out there is a community, that I’m not the only one feeling this way. Talking to others, dating other women helped me come clean to myself.
Also I found the love I was always looking for. I’m openly gay and happy about it.

Even when it doesn’t seem like everything will work out, it does. Believe in yourselves. You are never alone and you deserve love.

Love is life.

I’m a trans-masculine nonbinary lesbian.

I realized that I liked women when I was thirteen. I recognized it and came out as bisexual when I was fourteen years old. I came out for the first time on 3/29/20. I kept searching for labels that fit better after realizing that bisexuality didn’t fit me. I began experimenting with they/them pronouns and my attraction to men decreased very quickly. I chose a new name for myself and began using they/them pronouns. I began identifying as a lesbian, and came out as a lesbian in June 2020. In July, I came out as nonbinary. I started dressing masculine and I felt a lot more comfortable. I was not accepted by my family after coming out, and I struggled with undiagnosed depression and anxiety and possibly ADHD. Even though I was out of the closet, I still struggled with internalized homophobia and compulsory heterosexuality. My family continues to deadname and misgender me, despite all my efforts to correct them and get them to use my correct name and pronouns. I began to self harm to cope with gender dysphoria and my family’s rejection of my identity. I still live with my family and I am not currently able to get away from them or move out. Seeing the state of the country that I live in, and how it treated people like me worsened my feeling of hopelessness. My story does not have a happy ending yet, but I want to live to make it better. I am human. I’ve got goals, and dreams, and hopes. I am not just my past, and I am not just my trauma. I want to become an actor. I want to have a family one day. I want to adopt kids when I get older. I can’t wait to make some of my dreams come true.

I am here, and I am queer.

When I was really young, in kindergarten and elementary school, I used to wear whatever I felt comfortable in. I had no concept of gender and no concept of sexuality. As I got older, into middle school and high school, I started realizing that I was somehow “different” than everyone around me. I didn’t look like other girls in my class, and while I did try my best to wear what everyone around me was wearing, I never felt like I was “pulling it off”. I would try my best to be as feminine as I could, but it never really stuck and it certainly didn’t feel like me. I never cared if the boys thought I was cute, and I always got super self conscious around my girlfriends.

It wasn’t until high school that everything clicked. I realized like a flip of a light switch I wasn’t into men, but rather women. For a long time I tried to suppress that side of myself because the idea of forever being “different” terrified me. Many nights I spent awake, thinking of ways to undo it or talk myself out of it. Unfortunately, a few of my peers caught wind of my realization and soon I was outed to the entirety of my high school. At first I was absolutely terrified, but there wasn’t anything I could do at that point. I made the choice to claim it and own it (which I know is way easier said than done in some situations). It felt like a silver lining to me that everyone knew and I didn’t have to say the words, because I still hadn’t accepted it truly and I still wasn’t okay with it deep down.

It wasn’t until I made it to college and found a safe queer space that I realized just how truly incredible all of these amazing people around me were. After so much sole searching and simplifying of my life, I was finally able to genuinely accept who I was. Half way through college I started struggling a lot with the idea of gender. I thought, by being gay, it would make sense that I had more of a masculine demeanor (you know, stereotypes and all).

Oh how I was wrong.

These incredible people around me, coupled with amazing representation online, helped me to understand that even though our society genders absolutely everything, it doesn’t mean you have to label yourself as one. See it never felt right for me to call myself a “girl” and it definitely didn’t feel right calling myself a “boy” either. I was so confused thinking I had to put myself in a box so everyone around me felt comfortable. But the truth is, I don’t need to be either male or female, that being a person who is kind and honest is far more than good enough.

It’s incredible spaces like these that bring me so much pride and make it so much easier to say that I am apart of this beautiful community. That sexuality and gender can exist in all their fluidity, or they can not exist at all. That labeling yourself is an option in this world, but it certainly doesn’t have to be a requirement. Mostly, I’ve realized that being gentle with the world and the people in it, no matter the struggle, is far too under-appreciated.

I hope each and everyone of you, no matter how hard or easy your journey has been (or is currently), find nothing but love and support.

With all my love, Casey (KS, USA)
I am gay. I am genderqueer. I am here.

An almost married Lesbian

I first acknowledged I was into women in the 5th grade. As a kid I was pretty sheltered so I didn’t actually know what gay/lesbian was, but I did hear about the word bi – so that’s what I called myself. When I told my mom she explained that all women know that other women are beautiful, but that it didn’t necessarily mean I “liked” them. Now, I can acknowledge a good looking dude, don’t get me wrong, but I knew I could never love a man the way I could love a woman. By the time I hit middle school I came out to a few friends who were incredibly supportive. And when high school rolled around, I finally accepted myself enough to openly live as a lesbian. I got very little flack about it thankfully (IMO it’s because of how much larger I was than my peers) but I never truly accepted the part of myself that could be attracted to men. As confusing as this sounds, I still identify as a lesbian because of my previous statement about falling in love. I am lucky enough to love a woman who understands what this means and accepts me for who I am. Unfortunately, our wedding was postponed because of COVID-19, so although I can’t quite call her my wife, we have proudly and affectionately adopted the title of “almost-wife” for each other. Because of my family (who is extremely supportive btw), friends, and the love of my life I am enthusiastically proud to be a part of this wonderfully supportive and kind community. And I am so friggin excited that Start the Wave has joined with the LGBTQ+ community so we can grow and learn and love one another the way that we all deserve!

Still figuring things out 🙂

I’m still very young, I am only in my mid teens but I’ve known that I had feelings for girls since I was like 7 or 8. I live in quite a small town and had no representation around me apart from in the odd tv show, I thought sexuality was as linear as just either straight or gay. As a 7 year old that had certain feelings towards girls but also fancied a boy in her class this very small concept on sexuality made me very confused on who I was and what I was meant to feel.
I went to church with my nanny even though my parents weren’t super religious and had sort of picked up through the years that love was supposedly only meant to be between a man and a woman. I was a very anxious child and the idea of hell was terrifying to me so the fact I had been taught that that’s were I would end up if I continued feeling the way I did made me very very scared. Now I know that I have been made the way I am and I’m not going to get punished or condemned for just being me so I’ve been able to overcome the that fear. And the thought of a big pride party in a lgbtq+ section in hell makes me giggle a bit.
The year or two of fear and confusion led me to just suppress it as much as I could and just try get on with the normal things a 9 year old should be worried about. My attraction to girls always just stayed in the back of my head and by the age of 12 I had learnt about bisexuality so anytime the thought creeped back into my head i just sort of went ok well your probably bisexual but that’s good because you can still just end up with a man.
I always avoided the thought until around the start of 2020 when my best friend told me she liked me, at first I was just like ok chill and didn’t think much of it until I started thinking did I feel the same. Over a month or two I stopped hiding from my sexuality which was pretty easy as I spent a lot of time just by myself because of lockdown. It was a lot easier than when I was younger as I had my friend who felt the same as I did.
In this time I labelled myself Bi and talked about it with a few of my close friends. they were all supportive and to my surprise a lot of them were also questioning their sexuality. Deep down I still felt unsettled about being bi apparently undoing years of internalized homophobia towards yourself isn’t the easiest thing to do. Thankfully I had several friends around me on the same journey so I never felt abnormal in my friend group.
I started watching just about every show with the slightest wlw representation in it because I’ve always used tv for comfort or an escape so maybe these shows could help me feel more comfortable with myself. It was sort of difficult to find a show that had a good representation of a wlw representation but then Bly manor came out and a short time later I found Wynonna Earp. Even though Dani and Jamie’s relationship didn’t end the happiest it was still a beautiful story and it was never made a huge thing that they fell in love with the same gender it just focused on their love story and the plot of the show. The same with Nicole and Waverly, it was never made out to be something so shocking that they fell in love with each other, it was also nice seeing Waverly accept her sexuality there was no 3 seasons of her questioning, it was simply a oh well that’s new, a slight hiccup then a, well I love this person so why should it matter if they are the same gender as me. This definitely helped me view my future, potentially with a woman, with a lot more ease.
In the past month or so I have started to question myself a lot again on whether I am bisexual or lesbian. I think watching these shows and realizing that ending up with a man isn’t the only normal thing has made me think whether my very few experiences with having feelings towards men were real or simply because I had been taught since birth that was the “normal” thing or the way I had to feel to fit in with society.
I am still very young and have so many things to figure out and do but at the moment I am happy with my sexuality whatever my specific label is. I am not out to my family but actually just a few hours ago my sister told me if I ever had an attraction to woman I could tell her because she would never want me to feel alone. safe to say I cried a little but I am very happy that I have support from at least one of my family members.

apologies if anything doesn’t make sense I’m not the best writer but I’m very grateful to be able to share 🙂

Gay

I grew up in a very traditional filipino family. My parents had me 6 months after they were married at 18. I grew up with boys in the family. Being the only the child, I grew close to my male cousins who were around the same age as me. I believe that I knew I was gay since I was little because I was such a tomboy and I would find other females attractive. It got to the point where I made myself believe that I wasn’t gay and that I’m attracted to these beautiful women because I want to be like them but deep inside I knew that I was attracted to them because I liked them. So growing up for me was tough because knowing that I was gay then made it impossible for me to really be myself. I was born in 1996 so when it was around my Junior high/High School Era, I was struggling with my sexuality. I still chose to deny that I wasn’t a lesbian or bi, or gay. It wasn’t until the end of grade 9 when I met someone. She was one of the reasons why I chose to go to. certain High School because I genuinely wanted to get to know her. Soon enough we went to the same high school and we became best of friends. I knew deep down inside that I had a crush on her and that I really really liked her. She was dating a boy throughout all of high school and I chose to be strong and be her best friend because I’d rather have her as a friend than nothing at all. That’s when some people started to question my sexuality more. I played a lot of sports in high school so I dressed like a jock almost everyday. Oh and to be clear, I find men attractive too. The first boy I kissed was in gr10. I dated 2 guys in a span of those 3 years in high school but deep down I knew it was always her. I guess you can say that I was trying to cover my feelings for her by being with someone else (mainly a guy). Anyways, long story short. after our first 3 years of College, I realized that my feelings for her got stronger and stronger to the point where I wasn’t sure if I could be friends with her anymore because it hurt me alot seeing her dating someone else. One night we went to celebrate finishing exams for that semester. She got drunk, I wasn’t drinking. She took me to the bathroom stall at the bar and cried and asked me why I have been so distant. So then after 6 years of hiding my feelings I told her that I was in love with her. 1 month later, we got together. Then at that moment I felt like I was invincible and that I was strong enough to come out to my friends and family. And so I did and so did she. We came out together and it was a scary but a beautiful moment for us. However, my parents did not take it well. Considering that I am the only child and in a traditional filipino family, it was a tough time for my parents and myself. But without my support system (my friends and my GF at the time) I wouldn’t have had the guts to come out to my parents. In conclusion, we broke up, and its about a year and a half since we broke up, even though I am still madly in love with her and she’s moved on, I have found some light to get me through. I am embracing my sexuality more than ever. But to this day, I am still afraid to come out to certain people because I guess I am still scared of how they will treat or look at me after. I am just glad that I am out to my parents and my friends because they mean the most to me. I apologize for this long story. There are tons more of details but I didn’t want to bore anyone any longer. But here I am, out. Gay as I would like to identify myself. I love men and women all the same, but I would say that I am attracted more to women as I am able to find deeper emotional connections with them.

Rachel N.

I knew I was queer from a young age. I remember watching Willow’s journey on Buffy and seeing that on screen just felt right. But I was young, and terrified of that feeling. I grew up in a city in Massachusetts, went to church every Sunday with my family, sang in the choir, went to CCD and was searching for a strong connection with my faith. At times I found it, but other times, I felt like I just didn’t fit there. As I grew up, I became more obsessed with the feelings I was having about my sexuality. I would stay up all night looking up things like “how do you know if you’re gay” and on message boards trying to find people who might feel the same way I do. Middle school and high school was hard. My friends were talking about cute boys and “hot” male actors. But I liked the female actors, and I didn’t think the senior on the soccer team was the most attractive thing on two legs. But I pretended I did. And honestly, there were a few boys I thought were really nice and cute, and I would talk about them. But in reality, I was much more interested in the senior girl that played soccer. But I couldn’t admit that; to my friends or myself. These feelings of being different and knowing my sexuality wasn’t status quo ate at me for a long time. I ended up coming out my senior year in high school….via twitter…..to impress a girl. (it wasn’t the best idea. I wasn’t ready, and my friends weren’t ready to talk about it with me). Honestly, it just made me feel like even more of a freak, and in that time where I am suppose to be happy and finding myself, I lost myself more and more. And it took a long time to get back to the person I knew I was. Ten years later, I’m still not there.
About a year after that I came out to my parents (again to impress a girl, I wasn’t ready), over the phone on a cold night in February. They weren’t exactly thrilled. It came out of nowhere and they didn’t really know what to do with the information. And honestly, neither did I. We didn’t talk about it more than twice. The first time my dad told me to keep this to myself, and the second, when my mom told me not to tell people when I went to study abroad in Ireland. I talked about it a little bit with one of my sisters, but never felt fully safe to with the other because she would always make homophobic jokes and comments, specifically to the lesbain community.
For most of my life since coming out, my sexuality was looked at as something to mention or comment, not to accept or embrace. And that made learning how to love myself and feeling like I am worthy of love quite difficult. I spent almost every weekend in college black out, or close to that drunk trying to find someone who might find me pretty enough to kiss or have sex with. I didn’t care who it was, I just wanted to feel something or fit in. For years, no one found me pretty enough. No one wanted to love me. There were a few times someone kissed me or went to bed with me. But no one who wanted to let it be known. I was always a secret. And all through college, when I was suppose to be finding myself and figuring out who I was and where I fit, I spent getting drunk and absolutely hating myself. And trying not to let anyone know how deeply these feeling were.
When I was a senior in college I got my first girlfriend. Finally, someone who wanted to love me, someone who was willing to tell other people that she loved me. We played on the soccer team together and although our relationship was brief, I am so thankful for it. It was the first time I believed that someone could love me and all my weird. After we broke up, I didn’t feel that way anymore, but it got better. After years of working on it, she has come to be one of my best friends. We both agree we never should have dated, we are WAY better as friends. But I am thankful for that special time we shared. About a year after that relationship, I fell Wildly in love with a beautiful woman who was just coming into her bisexuality. We started dating and almost 5 years later we are now engaged. By allowing myself to be loved and finding a safe space to grow I finally feel safe enough to step into my truth.

What I have come to realize is that I spent SO long trying to fit in, trying to make sure I had pretty friends, and accepting that I was just the fat ugly queer friend that they kept in their circle for good measure that I never learned who I was and what I wanted to do with my life. Now, after cutting off ties with people who made me feel like shit, and having a supportive partner who supports me in everything that I attempt and explore I am starting to let myself be free. I am starting to allow myself to love me. I still struggle with it. I am more unkind than kind to myself. But I am working on it. I am learning to love my queer self and letting all my colors show.

Gay/lesbian

The signs probably started showing when I was 10, but I didn’t have the courage or freedom to admit this to myself until 16. Becoming self-aware was a whole other milestone that caused stress, anxiety and depression because I didn’t know how to deal with it alone.

When I couldn’t take it anymore, the first person I came out to was my brother, and I did it by email when he was in the room next to mine. I remember shaking and crying when I hit send. I told him not to reply because I didn’t want to know if he hated me for who I was, but he stepped into my room to hug me as I broke down. This gave me the courage to tell my friends, who already knew and were just there waiting for me to be ready. I felt blessed and so lucky that the people around me accepted me and still loved me the same way.

So I eventually told my mum, and she cried – not out of happiness, but disappointment. She told me she was disappointed and I can still remember the physically pain that hit my chest till this day. I don’t think I could ever forget the way it made me feel when the most important person in my life didn’t want to understand me. Even now, it’s something we brush underneath the rug and it still destroys me. My own father (who I don’t have a good relationship with) is still stuck in his own traditional ways of thinking. He’s pointed to a TV screen with LGBTQIA+ people and told me that ‘these people are disgusting and don’t deserve to get married’, so I’ve decided he doesn’t deserve to know me.

For as good as the world is, it’s still hard to comprehend that those who don’t accept us are not actually bad people.